eric
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Post by eric on Jul 12, 2013 18:02:43 GMT -6
I'm starting a thread to discuss Orange is the New Black, and to archive any comments from the AVC boards for when everyone else is ready to read up. Please mark all responses with a Spoiler for (whatever ep you're up to and spoiling header), as in SPOILERS - Episode 2, etc. Thanks!
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affrosponge88
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Life's a song you don't get to rehearse.
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Post by affrosponge88 on Jul 13, 2013 0:03:34 GMT -6
SPOILERS - Episode 2
Watched the first two episodes, and so far I'm liking it a lot. I love what everybody's already said about it (the whole dichotomy of how it takes it self just seriously enough without going overboard and while still grasping the severity of the situation at hand). Yes, the first episode was loaded with lesbian sex, but it never felt gratuitous, and it's an essential plot point to the series (something that 99% of tv shows who do depict it can't really say), so it didn't really bother me, especially with the restraint it showed in using it so far. The balancing of tones have been a little to shaky for me (to be honest, as much as I was enjoying Red's flashbacks in episode 2, I did not care for the scene with her popping the other woman's breast implants, for that seemed a little too cartoonish in the universe the series takes place in), but it's doing a wonderful job so far at keeping all of the tones separated, but not disjointed. Just a wonderful blend of different emotions, in an unpredictable rhythm and pacing. I also love the way it actively tries to subvert your expectations on when certain emotions you think should be taking place actually aren't. Specifically, the scene that follows the flashback between her and Jason Biggs' character (forgot his name, whoops) where she appears to be crying, but is actually chewing up the hot peppers, hence the tears. That was a clever little switch that actually sheds light on just how far she's come in the short time she's been in the prison (a realistic amount of progress too, not some miracle transformation). She's slowly getting accustomed to her surroundings, and I'm interested in seeing the choices she'll make as she gets even more comfortable in this habitat.
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drclash
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Post by drclash on Jul 13, 2013 11:51:09 GMT -6
I'm kinda proud of myself for first pinpointing the "takes itself seriously, but not too seriously" aspect of the show. Well done, me.
I'm on episode 7. Without spoiling anything, its settled into a comfortable groove. It's excellent as a sort of "slice of life" show, as much as a show about prison can fulfill that requirement. I especially like how they continue delving into the past lives of most of the inmates. It's excellent for building the world of the prison, making the world seem more fully realized when they go so far as to set up an entire 5 minute flashback scene dedicated to a character we barely even see.
SPOILERS - EPISODE 2 I THINK? The only thing I'm really not crazy about is the relationship between Daya and the guard whose name I can't remember. I guess it's supposed to be cute, or whatever? I dunno, the initial spark between them seemed kinda forced, and I'm not really sure what the show's master plan is with them, but it's just strikes me as weird for some reason.
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eric
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Post by eric on Jul 13, 2013 16:02:20 GMT -6
Yeah, the parts about the husband/Jason Biggs always feel a little more snide or strident. I don't think it's Biggs' fault...but the point about How much should he carry on with his own life and how much should he worry about his wife could be a lot more substantial if he and the extended friends and family were treated less like a parody at times.
SPOILERS through Episode 9
Man, I'm burning through these eps. It's such an entertaining show. I'd probably be finished now if not for the Gold Cup soccer tournament.
Maybe the coolest part of OITNB is that it does ultimately score some points of social criticism in the way one might expect, and it's humor does get a little cheeky in the way Weeds did, and the central arc does ultimately hinge on a romantic triangle in the way one could see coming from the beginning...but it does such a good job of taking it's time developing the Piper-centric plots, and weaving all the supporting stories around her so naturally, and letting everything accumulate so it's impact comes at exactly the right time, that all these things which could potentially have derailed the show actually enhance it.
I mean, right from episode 1 I got the vibe that Piper might slowly fall back under Alex's sway in prison, and that Piper's husband might try his best to stand by her but ultimately not be up to the task (though I underestimated just how shallow their upper class NY world would be portrayed compared to prison life), and that the story might peak with Piper getting back together with Alex. But somehow, it all worked. They took enough time that I wanted them to get together in a way that shows can rarely pull off with their central "ship" or will they/won't they, in that it seems to grow right out of the drama. By the same token, the story has left open the potential end-of-season drama (I haven't watched that far so I'm speculating now) where Piper finds out Alex actually did rat on her, and her husband is alienated from her when he finds out Piper's been sleeping with her ex-lover.
Like I said, all this potentially mawkish stuff works because of how everything accumulates. We're allowed to take the stories of all the other women in prison seriously, so the fact that Piper going a little mad in prison actually empowers her in a way, cuts her off from the world that forced her to repress her strongest emotions, isn't cliche. We see through all the LOST-style flashbacks the intense cruelty of the world towards the women that wound up in prison, strongly and clearly enough that even all the ironic twists don't dilute the central idea. It all kind of comes together when Piper's thrown into isolation, probably the most moving prisoner-in-the-hole scenes outside of the V For Vendetta comic book, IMO. That's the episode, the one I just watched, where I fully understood the premise that all women are in a prison that men keep them in...and I mean I understood it because it worked, I felt it, it didn't make me roll my eyes or turn away. The show proved it to me.
Of course, with 4 episodes left in s1, there's still a lot of room to develop in other directions.
Maybe one of the reasons I relate so little to Jason Biggs' character's career aspirations is because the NY Times and NPR seem like such status objects, not like real achievements. I might respect his enthusiasm for publishing a borderline exploitative article about Piper's time in prison if it WASN'T for the Times. Though I guess that might be the point, too. I wish the friends/family didn't fail so completely to express support for Piper...maybe that's what that type of family is really like, I don't know. But like Piper's brother could be a lot more sympathetic towards her given his own lifestyle. I dunno, maybe we'll see more flashbacks where Piper earned their apathy later on.
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eric
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Post by eric on Jul 13, 2013 16:11:39 GMT -6
I'm kinda proud of myself for first pinpointing the "takes itself seriously, but not too seriously" aspect of the show. Well done, me. SPOILERS - EPISODE 2 I THINK?The only thing I'm really not crazy about is the relationship between Daya and the guard whose name I can't remember. I guess it's supposed to be cute, or whatever? I dunno, the initial spark between them seemed kinda forced, and I'm not really sure what the show's master plan is with them, but it's just strikes me as weird for some reason. Very Light Spoilers thru ep. 9Yeah, that "serious but not too serious" really nails the energy of the show. It's not Weeds, but it's also not Breaking Bad. It touches on both misery and comedy but dovetails it all together in a way that almost hasn't been achieved before, that I can recall. It flirts with being "too light" in the Jason Biggs subplots, but they tend to at least carry moments of sadness or reflection, and they help move the story forward (which isn't always evident at first). The acting ensemble really supports the "Everything serves the whole" mentality. The acting is great almost across the board. I mean, Taylor Schilling is generally good, but Kate Mulgrew, Natasha Lyonne and Laura Prepon are better, but the host of actresses in prison whom I've probably never seen or heard of before are amazing. But it's hard to single anyone out because no one is really showing off, except maybe Pablo Schreider as a darkly comic villain who is really despicable. But even that's driven by a willingness to make a fool of himself. That mentality, and the "not taking itself too seriously" is where I worry some people might hesitate to call the show great. There's no one (so far anyways) shown being totally hopeless, or dying dramatically, or any authority figure who is given the honor of being totally menacing. Everything serves the balance, the sense of a twisted community. I'm not sure how that sits against other great shows on TV, but right now I'd be willing to call OITNB as good as shows with more evident artistic aspirations, like Rectify, Hannibal or The Americans.
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digifreak642
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Post by digifreak642 on Jul 14, 2013 4:20:07 GMT -6
6 episodes in. Episode 5 was my least favorite. The flashbacks weren't very strong and I could really see the string being pulled in the Biggs/Chapman/Alex storyline.
When I grade the episodes on AVC I think I'll go: 1/2 B+ 3/4 A- 5/6 B
All of the episodes have been at or close to a B+, but 3 gets a bump for having the best flashback of the series so far.
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Post by captblicero on Jul 14, 2013 11:37:56 GMT -6
Damn you all for making me marathon this show. *pees on floor out of protest*
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eric
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Post by eric on Jul 14, 2013 18:24:15 GMT -6
This is actually how we drove Justin Bieber to pee in that mop bucket. He's really into OITNB now, you guys.
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drclash
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Post by drclash on Jul 14, 2013 19:38:35 GMT -6
1/2 - A- 3/4 - B+ 5/6 - B+ 7/8 - A- 9/10 - A- 11/12 - A 13 - I'm right in the middle of it now, but I'm leaning towards A-. No, I don't know why I didn't just wait until the end of the episode to post this.
The episodes all blended together for me so I can't really specifically pick out in retrospect what merited those grades, but it's all more or less a consistently pretty great show. I honestly can't even remember at the moment what parts of 11/12 merited that A, but there was definitely some great stuff in there. I'll definitely have to rewatch this show down the road.
EDIT: GAH. SHIT. A.
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digifreak642
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Post by digifreak642 on Jul 16, 2013 0:01:06 GMT -6
Just finished episode 9. This is almost definitely going to my favorite new show of 2013.
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Post by davethedouchebag on Jul 24, 2013 0:17:42 GMT -6
Finale Spoilers One detail I loved in the finale was the way it showed Piper's change over the course of the season through her social group. In the pilot, she only winds up talking to white people. This is her "tribe". In the finale, after she manages to piss off and alienate almost everyone else, the main group of people she interacts with are the black inmates. She certainly doesn't fit into the typical structure of the prison community anymore.
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