Post by captblicero on Jun 16, 2013 15:25:55 GMT -6
Archived discussion from June 11th, 2013. Link here for original comment.
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LloydBraun
Abed TV and Britta therapizing in PP were good. Pierce and Shirley's focus group was useless but produced some funny lines and that great tag.
That's about it. I was tolerating and bordering on accepting NuCommunity through 403 and it's because they had enough good stuff in the periphery to enjoy. And then 404 happened and the crap just kept compounding.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Archived discussion from June 12th, 2013. Link here for original comment.
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Capt. Blicero
Hey I'm going to continue our season 4 discussion on Community!
I started this because I felt the season would fall by the wayside and, somewhat unfairly, it would never be discussed. Through the rest of the week I'll cover the rest of the topics: underrated episode of the season (something you want to champion), worst episode(s) of the season, and best episode(s) of the season.
Today ... let's talk about the B/C plots of the season because, hey, who else would? They're the often forgotten threads of the often forgotten season.
How do you rate the B/C/D/J plots of season 4?
History 101:
-Abed TV
-Annie and Shirley pull pranks
-Troy/Britta talk in a fountain for some reason
Paranormal Parentage:
-Jeff and Britta talk daddy issues (this episode doesn't have a clear B-plot like a typical sitcom, but this is close)
Conventions of Space and Time:
-Jeff attracts a female Inspector Spacetime fan
-Annie pretends to be Mrs. Winger in a hotel
-Pierce and Shirley and the focus group. "Hot blond with a tennis racket."
Alternative History of the German Invasion
-Chang returns as "Kevin" much to the Dean's dismay
Cooperative Escapism in Familial Relations
-The Shawshank Thanksgiving side-adventure
Advanced Documentary Filmmaking
-(Since it's a concept episode about Chang, there's not really a B-plot and all the threads are connected; B-plots exist to give the other main characters screen time because they wouldn't otherwise with the main story. Troy/Annie at the trout farm is sorta close though.)
So as not to overload everyone, let's do the last half of the season tomorrow! Huzzah.
I'll post my thoughts on the B-plots soon. If you all don't participate in this discussion and talk about what you hated/liked about these plots, I will murder your entire family.
5 DAYS AGO 12 LIKES
Hey I'm going to continue our season 4 discussion on Community!
I started this because I felt the season would fall by the wayside and, somewhat unfairly, it would never be discussed. Through the rest of the week I'll cover the rest of the topics: underrated episode of the season (something you want to champion), worst episode(s) of the season, and best episode(s) of the season.
Today ... let's talk about the B/C plots of the season because, hey, who else would? They're the often forgotten threads of the often forgotten season.
How do you rate the B/C/D/J plots of season 4?
History 101:
-Abed TV
-Annie and Shirley pull pranks
-Troy/Britta talk in a fountain for some reason
Paranormal Parentage:
-Jeff and Britta talk daddy issues (this episode doesn't have a clear B-plot like a typical sitcom, but this is close)
Conventions of Space and Time:
-Jeff attracts a female Inspector Spacetime fan
-Annie pretends to be Mrs. Winger in a hotel
-Pierce and Shirley and the focus group. "Hot blond with a tennis racket."
Alternative History of the German Invasion
-Chang returns as "Kevin" much to the Dean's dismay
Cooperative Escapism in Familial Relations
-The Shawshank Thanksgiving side-adventure
Advanced Documentary Filmmaking
-(Since it's a concept episode about Chang, there's not really a B-plot and all the threads are connected; B-plots exist to give the other main characters screen time because they wouldn't otherwise with the main story. Troy/Annie at the trout farm is sorta close though.)
So as not to overload everyone, let's do the last half of the season tomorrow! Huzzah.
I'll post my thoughts on the B-plots soon. If you all don't participate in this discussion and talk about what you hated/liked about these plots, I will murder your entire family.
5 DAYS AGO 12 LIKES
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narrowstrife
Yikes, seeing all these B plots together in one place... Can I just put them all at the bottom?
Although the Shawshank plot did give us "We were....about to....EAT GARBAGE DIP", so that's probably my favorite. I also liked Jeff and Britta talking in PP.
And as for the worst - Troy and Britta's fountain fight. Ugh. Before S4 started, I had some hope for those two crazy lovebirds, but the fountain scene put an end to that.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
Yikes, seeing all these B plots together in one place... Can I just put them all at the bottom?
Although the Shawshank plot did give us "We were....about to....EAT GARBAGE DIP", so that's probably my favorite. I also liked Jeff and Britta talking in PP.
And as for the worst - Troy and Britta's fountain fight. Ugh. Before S4 started, I had some hope for those two crazy lovebirds, but the fountain scene put an end to that.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Maize Kraize
I really enjoyed the Shawshank side-adventure, but maybe that's because until right now I didn't know it was an homage to Shawshank. I also love Abed TV. I remember being in Tinychat with Janine going CRAZY with excitement once it hit Community Babies.
The fountain stuff is fun just for how shitty the set looks.
Also, the Dean in that Abed TV photo is pure gold. Dean jokes never get old for me.
5 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
I really enjoyed the Shawshank side-adventure, but maybe that's because until right now I didn't know it was an homage to Shawshank. I also love Abed TV. I remember being in Tinychat with Janine going CRAZY with excitement once it hit Community Babies.
The fountain stuff is fun just for how shitty the set looks.
Also, the Dean in that Abed TV photo is pure gold. Dean jokes never get old for me.
5 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Abed TV is a lot of fun because you get to see Community do all these crass, multi-came jokes. Oh Lord noooooooo! The sad part is, the Dean's outfit in Abed TV is less crazy than in the real episode. Sigh. But I loved that fishstick I found for him.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
Abed TV is a lot of fun because you get to see Community do all these crass, multi-came jokes. Oh Lord noooooooo! The sad part is, the Dean's outfit in Abed TV is less crazy than in the real episode. Sigh. But I loved that fishstick I found for him.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Maize Kraize
It's a great screen cap.
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
It's a great screen cap.
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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roare
Greendale Babies was maybe my favorite bit of the entire season, at least comedically. It was creative in a way that most of S4's humor wasn't.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
Greendale Babies was maybe my favorite bit of the entire season, at least comedically. It was creative in a way that most of S4's humor wasn't.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Unregistered Guy Named Eric
Reading this list reminds me how I started s4 with some hope and gradually became discouraged. The subplots of the first 2 episodes all have some charm, at least in their conception. But they all come across as strictly comic conceits and the underlying angst is too quickly forgotten.
It makes me take another look at Britta's most neurotic scenes and stories from late s2. At the time it seemed depressing that she was so out-of-sorts and lacking the confidence to really stand up for herself (like when she was right about Luka but still had to endure Troy and Abed's disdain). But that genuine hurt seems infinitely preferable to her argument with Troy in the fountain turning into shameless childish hi-jinks, only to be waved away immediately.
This continued through story after story in s4, as it became apparent that there would be little to no accumulation of emotions for the characters.
Consequently, my favorite subplots in this group are all from the first two episodes, because I believed they might be devices that actually opened the characters up for real change. Abed TV was a fun deconstruction of the group that should've been a method for Abed to strengthen his bonds with them over time. Annie getting carried away with the pranks cause she's scared of graduating had real potential, but it mostly ended up just being a mini-showcase for Alison and meaning very little for the character.
5 DAYS AGO 10 LIKES
Reading this list reminds me how I started s4 with some hope and gradually became discouraged. The subplots of the first 2 episodes all have some charm, at least in their conception. But they all come across as strictly comic conceits and the underlying angst is too quickly forgotten.
It makes me take another look at Britta's most neurotic scenes and stories from late s2. At the time it seemed depressing that she was so out-of-sorts and lacking the confidence to really stand up for herself (like when she was right about Luka but still had to endure Troy and Abed's disdain). But that genuine hurt seems infinitely preferable to her argument with Troy in the fountain turning into shameless childish hi-jinks, only to be waved away immediately.
This continued through story after story in s4, as it became apparent that there would be little to no accumulation of emotions for the characters.
Consequently, my favorite subplots in this group are all from the first two episodes, because I believed they might be devices that actually opened the characters up for real change. Abed TV was a fun deconstruction of the group that should've been a method for Abed to strengthen his bonds with them over time. Annie getting carried away with the pranks cause she's scared of graduating had real potential, but it mostly ended up just being a mini-showcase for Alison and meaning very little for the character.
5 DAYS AGO 10 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
To be fair, how much can you get for a story with like ... two minutes tops? I agree you need some resolution, but there's not a lot to be done. Except that this was the impetus for switching majors, which was never completely covered anyway. I think that's more to blame on following episodes to track her major.
5 DAYS AGO 9 LIKES
To be fair, how much can you get for a story with like ... two minutes tops? I agree you need some resolution, but there's not a lot to be done. Except that this was the impetus for switching majors, which was never completely covered anyway. I think that's more to blame on following episodes to track her major.
5 DAYS AGO 9 LIKES
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Unregistered Guy Named Eric
Well it should have continued into other subplots in other episodes. I mean, demonstrating continuity would be nice, but demonstrating emotional consequences is much more important, and all that takes is a few seconds of sadness that isn't waved away with "I just realized that because our view of the world is so charmingly askew, all my problems can actually be considered virtues!" Which was basically the be all end all philosophy of s4.
That said, if Annie and Shirley can't be done justice in 2 minutes, give them 3-4 minutes. There's plenty of other stuff that could be shaved or cut from that episode or from the season in order to give some more serious subplots/development a little room to breathe.
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
Well it should have continued into other subplots in other episodes. I mean, demonstrating continuity would be nice, but demonstrating emotional consequences is much more important, and all that takes is a few seconds of sadness that isn't waved away with "I just realized that because our view of the world is so charmingly askew, all my problems can actually be considered virtues!" Which was basically the be all end all philosophy of s4.
That said, if Annie and Shirley can't be done justice in 2 minutes, give them 3-4 minutes. There's plenty of other stuff that could be shaved or cut from that episode or from the season in order to give some more serious subplots/development a little room to breathe.
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
The problem with cutting those subplots is that you have to shoehorn those characters in somewhere else. It's a pick your poison writing problem.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
The problem with cutting those subplots is that you have to shoehorn those characters in somewhere else. It's a pick your poison writing problem.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Unregistered Guy Named Eric
But it's a problem that stems from an entirely, fundamentally flawed approach to writing the season. The structure for "History 101" was a mess and a lot of people noticed it when it aired. The characters could have interacted with each other much more naturally and been more entertaining than the separate subplots.
Britta and Troy at the fountain is inherently funnier if others are there trying to have a more reasonable conversation and Troy/Britta keep interrupting with their childish games while at the same time being embarrassed at their own behavior. But the writers decided we needed to see Troy/Britta on their own as a couple right away. But they never found a compelling dynamic for it. Every time they were on their own in s4 they instantly became a standard, cute but mismatched sitcom couple. They resembled Shaggy and Velma on Scooby Doo:Mystery Inc. way too much for such a character based comedy.
Just let all the characters, in their pairings and problems, bounce off the world of Greendale, instead of sending them off on their own. They need to be held accountable quickly, or they never have a reason to be pulled back down to Earth and learn from it. So during the whole season, Annie keeps behaving worse and Troy and Britta are never forced to try to assess themselves as adults (at least until they break up).
All of which is tangential to what a fail The Hunger Deans was as a central "glue" story, and making that the joke didn't help. Just have everyone involved and all of their issues escalating at once. It's easier, more human, and forces in-story reactions, rather than trying to find a different style of humor for each mini-scenario. That should be Community Writing 101.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
But it's a problem that stems from an entirely, fundamentally flawed approach to writing the season. The structure for "History 101" was a mess and a lot of people noticed it when it aired. The characters could have interacted with each other much more naturally and been more entertaining than the separate subplots.
Britta and Troy at the fountain is inherently funnier if others are there trying to have a more reasonable conversation and Troy/Britta keep interrupting with their childish games while at the same time being embarrassed at their own behavior. But the writers decided we needed to see Troy/Britta on their own as a couple right away. But they never found a compelling dynamic for it. Every time they were on their own in s4 they instantly became a standard, cute but mismatched sitcom couple. They resembled Shaggy and Velma on Scooby Doo:Mystery Inc. way too much for such a character based comedy.
Just let all the characters, in their pairings and problems, bounce off the world of Greendale, instead of sending them off on their own. They need to be held accountable quickly, or they never have a reason to be pulled back down to Earth and learn from it. So during the whole season, Annie keeps behaving worse and Troy and Britta are never forced to try to assess themselves as adults (at least until they break up).
All of which is tangential to what a fail The Hunger Deans was as a central "glue" story, and making that the joke didn't help. Just have everyone involved and all of their issues escalating at once. It's easier, more human, and forces in-story reactions, rather than trying to find a different style of humor for each mini-scenario. That should be Community Writing 101.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
I'm half convinced you adapted this from an argument about season 4 of Arrested Development ("Just let all the characters, in their pairings and problems, bounce off the world of Greendale, instead of sending them off on their own.")
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
I'm half convinced you adapted this from an argument about season 4 of Arrested Development ("Just let all the characters, in their pairings and problems, bounce off the world of Greendale, instead of sending them off on their own.")
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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roare
I think History 101 is a decent premiere that could've been fantastic if it was just....I don't know, re-arranged. There's lots of stuff in it that could've set up a really interesting episode and even a really interesting season. But unfortunately, most of it was handled poorly and the parts that were handled well didn't really carry over through the rest of the season.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
I think History 101 is a decent premiere that could've been fantastic if it was just....I don't know, re-arranged. There's lots of stuff in it that could've set up a really interesting episode and even a really interesting season. But unfortunately, most of it was handled poorly and the parts that were handled well didn't really carry over through the rest of the season.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
History 101:
-Abed TV
Honestly, I really love this one, and that love has grown over time like many Community stories.
-Annie and Shirley pull pranks
This was one wholly unremarkable. This is the genesis for Annie changing her major for no reason. The good payoff, however, is Dean finding popcorn in his pockets at the end of the episode. I long punchlines that wander!
-Troy/Britta talk in a fountain for some reason
Just dumb, even while being objective and ignoring my shipping-hatred. Nothing of value happened.
Paranormal Parentage:
-Jeff and Britta talk daddy issues (this episode doesn't have a clear B-plot like a typical sitcom, but this is close)
This was the Jeff and Britta fucking of the episode. Without it, the episode would really be a complete waste of time. I think they tight-roped successfully here. Just enough emotional weight and dumb Britta jokes.
Conventions of Space and Time:
-Jeff attracts a female Inspector Spacetime fan
Eh, just another side-plot. I think some will argue Jeff is being too shallow, but when a hot girl walks by some men tend to lose their values.
-Annie pretends to be Mrs. Winger in a hotel
This was terrible. I'm surprised there wasn't more outrage. She regressed to the point of unbelievability. I don't like obsessing about characters regressing because people do this in real life, but this was way too far and it wasn't funny. It's somewhat saved by a funny twist at the end: the nice hotel man and a good splash of water to the face. "Can I get more of these?" "Oh sure this is completely normal; more water coming up."
-Pierce and Shirley and the focus group. "Hot blond with a tennis racket."
This was Pierced used well, and Shirley too! That's rare. Shirley is trying to protect her friends, while Pierce unknowingly is a giant douche but it's not in a blatant asshole-ish way; he just really likes hot blonds with tennis rackets.
Alternative History of the German Invasion
-Chang returns as "Kevin" much to Dean's dismay
This was the episode with the cell phone burner joke at the end, right? I really liked that joke. If not, it's a garbage plot that misused poor Jim Rash. Remember: these two are a medical doctor and an Oscar-winning screenwriter, respectively.
Cooperative Escapism in Familial Relations
-The Shawshank Thanksgiving side-adventure
I don't hate it as much as anyone else. With a serious A-plot of Jeff meeting his dad, comedies usually pick a wacky sidekick of a plot. There were some good jokes and it was believable. Not the best B-plot, but it didn't cause violent diarrhea either.
5 DAYS AGO 12 LIKES
History 101:
-Abed TV
Honestly, I really love this one, and that love has grown over time like many Community stories.
-Annie and Shirley pull pranks
This was one wholly unremarkable. This is the genesis for Annie changing her major for no reason. The good payoff, however, is Dean finding popcorn in his pockets at the end of the episode. I long punchlines that wander!
-Troy/Britta talk in a fountain for some reason
Just dumb, even while being objective and ignoring my shipping-hatred. Nothing of value happened.
Paranormal Parentage:
-Jeff and Britta talk daddy issues (this episode doesn't have a clear B-plot like a typical sitcom, but this is close)
This was the Jeff and Britta fucking of the episode. Without it, the episode would really be a complete waste of time. I think they tight-roped successfully here. Just enough emotional weight and dumb Britta jokes.
Conventions of Space and Time:
-Jeff attracts a female Inspector Spacetime fan
Eh, just another side-plot. I think some will argue Jeff is being too shallow, but when a hot girl walks by some men tend to lose their values.
-Annie pretends to be Mrs. Winger in a hotel
This was terrible. I'm surprised there wasn't more outrage. She regressed to the point of unbelievability. I don't like obsessing about characters regressing because people do this in real life, but this was way too far and it wasn't funny. It's somewhat saved by a funny twist at the end: the nice hotel man and a good splash of water to the face. "Can I get more of these?" "Oh sure this is completely normal; more water coming up."
-Pierce and Shirley and the focus group. "Hot blond with a tennis racket."
This was Pierced used well, and Shirley too! That's rare. Shirley is trying to protect her friends, while Pierce unknowingly is a giant douche but it's not in a blatant asshole-ish way; he just really likes hot blonds with tennis rackets.
Alternative History of the German Invasion
-Chang returns as "Kevin" much to Dean's dismay
This was the episode with the cell phone burner joke at the end, right? I really liked that joke. If not, it's a garbage plot that misused poor Jim Rash. Remember: these two are a medical doctor and an Oscar-winning screenwriter, respectively.
Cooperative Escapism in Familial Relations
-The Shawshank Thanksgiving side-adventure
I don't hate it as much as anyone else. With a serious A-plot of Jeff meeting his dad, comedies usually pick a wacky sidekick of a plot. There were some good jokes and it was believable. Not the best B-plot, but it didn't cause violent diarrhea either.
5 DAYS AGO 12 LIKES
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e pluribus anustart
No, the cell phone burner joke is the tag to Advanced Documentary Filmmaking.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
No, the cell phone burner joke is the tag to Advanced Documentary Filmmaking.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
...Now I honestly can't remember one joke or extended moment from that B-plot. Oops. I'm fine with remembering the others though....
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
...Now I honestly can't remember one joke or extended moment from that B-plot. Oops. I'm fine with remembering the others though....
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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The Narrator Returns
I like all of three of these. Abed TV is great, the Jeff and Britta plot is the only memorable thing about "Paranormal Parentage," and the focus group plot is pretty funny and true to both characters. The rest can die in a fire, as far as I care.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
I like all of three of these. Abed TV is great, the Jeff and Britta plot is the only memorable thing about "Paranormal Parentage," and the focus group plot is pretty funny and true to both characters. The rest can die in a fire, as far as I care.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
What's so bad about the Thanksgiving plot? Not great, sure, but worth killing with fire?
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
What's so bad about the Thanksgiving plot? Not great, sure, but worth killing with fire?
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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The Narrator Returns
Nothing is bad, per se, it's just that I don't have feelings about it one way or the other, so I wouldn't care very much if it died in a fire.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
Nothing is bad, per se, it's just that I don't have feelings about it one way or the other, so I wouldn't care very much if it died in a fire.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Is that how you feel about the relatives you don't see very often? "Post card: from hell. We died in a fire today. Haven't seen you since the reunion. Hope to send you a late Christmas presents. Lots of love!"
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
Is that how you feel about the relatives you don't see very often? "Post card: from hell. We died in a fire today. Haven't seen you since the reunion. Hope to send you a late Christmas presents. Lots of love!"
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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SG Standard
I liked pretty much everything about COST. Everything was right in line with how the characters would act in those situations, and there were some good laughs to boot. I'd also throw some love to PP's plot. It handled the Jeff/Dad angle quite well, and Britta/Jeff banter is always fun.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
I liked pretty much everything about COST. Everything was right in line with how the characters would act in those situations, and there were some good laughs to boot. I'd also throw some love to PP's plot. It handled the Jeff/Dad angle quite well, and Britta/Jeff banter is always fun.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Even Annie?
5 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
Even Annie?
5 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
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SG Standard
Yup! Even Annie. I don't understand how her storyline came under such intense criticism from so many critics after the screeners were sent out. To be honest, her story in COST rang truer to the character than her storyline in VSA.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Yup! Even Annie. I don't understand how her storyline came under such intense criticism from so many critics after the screeners were sent out. To be honest, her story in COST rang truer to the character than her storyline in VSA.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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LloydBraun
Abed TV and Britta therapizing in PP were good. Pierce and Shirley's focus group was useless but produced some funny lines and that great tag.
That's about it. I was tolerating and bordering on accepting NuCommunity through 403 and it's because they had enough good stuff in the periphery to enjoy. And then 404 happened and the crap just kept compounding.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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roare
I was a lot more positive about the season earlier on than later. I don't know if the episodes were neccessairly better, but it wasn't as appparent that the entire season was just going to write off any emotional stakes then.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
I was a lot more positive about the season earlier on than later. I don't know if the episodes were neccessairly better, but it wasn't as appparent that the entire season was just going to write off any emotional stakes then.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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e pluribus anustart
A- | The fountain scene is fun, Abed TV is creative, and the Annie/Shirley dynamic returns in full force.
A | Wish they spent more time on this plot. Jeff/Britta still have the best chemisitry in the group.
C | Jeff/Annie subplot was atrocious. Pierce & Shirley's was decent, but unremarkable.
B | Chang's return was neither terrible nor special. Better than the A plot at least.
C+ | Pretty boring and uninspired Shawshank parody.
N/A
5 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
A- | The fountain scene is fun, Abed TV is creative, and the Annie/Shirley dynamic returns in full force.
A | Wish they spent more time on this plot. Jeff/Britta still have the best chemisitry in the group.
C | Jeff/Annie subplot was atrocious. Pierce & Shirley's was decent, but unremarkable.
B | Chang's return was neither terrible nor special. Better than the A plot at least.
C+ | Pretty boring and uninspired Shawshank parody.
N/A
5 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
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jmunney
History: Whoa, too many plots! Abed TV could have been an entire episode.
Paranormal: Not really a B(or under)plot here, just a lot going on. But the Jeff-Britta repartee was definitely what I liked the most.
Conventions: Flowed surprisingly well despite all that was going on. Jeff's shit could have been a lot better. The focus group was enlightening.
German: This bizarrely worked somewhat.
Escapism: I believe this was meant to be half-assed. That proved to not be the best of ideas. You can't half-ass half-assedness, oddly enough.
Doc.: (Capt., you've got a little Britta instead of Annie typo there... so edible.) This was amusing enough. Some guy from Wayne's World.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
History: Whoa, too many plots! Abed TV could have been an entire episode.
Paranormal: Not really a B(or under)plot here, just a lot going on. But the Jeff-Britta repartee was definitely what I liked the most.
Conventions: Flowed surprisingly well despite all that was going on. Jeff's shit could have been a lot better. The focus group was enlightening.
German: This bizarrely worked somewhat.
Escapism: I believe this was meant to be half-assed. That proved to not be the best of ideas. You can't half-ass half-assedness, oddly enough.
Doc.: (Capt., you've got a little Britta instead of Annie typo there... so edible.) This was amusing enough. Some guy from Wayne's World.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
Abed TV: C+ - it was funny enough and ingeniously constructed, but I don't much care about "Cognitive fugue" Abed anymore.
Annie and Shirley pull pranks: C: YNB and Alison are fun, but the plot itself went nowhere.
Tritta: D: Ugh.
Paranormal Jeff and Britta: B+: that was a nice, heartfelt discussion, which reminded me of S1. Too bad, it was surrounded by a lot of wacky nonsense.
Jeff attracts Seven of Nine: C: She's super hot and a super nerd! Can Jock Jeff cope with such cognitive dissonance?
Ms. Wingerannie: B+: The setup was awkward, but I liked that the writers actually committed to Annie's fantasy, and Alison was realy good.
Pierce and Shirley focus group: A-: I like the two of them together, and Pierce got to say things that others won't. That has value.
Chang/ Kevin: B+/F: as befits a character with split personality, the grade also has an evil alter ego. The plot actually started off interesting, and utterly fizzled by the end of the show.
Shawshakigving: B: good idea, wrong homage, so-so execution.
Tritta trout farm: C-: Somewhat more palatable, because the story didn't revolve around them making moon eyes at each other. But still: ugh.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Abed TV: C+ - it was funny enough and ingeniously constructed, but I don't much care about "Cognitive fugue" Abed anymore.
Annie and Shirley pull pranks: C: YNB and Alison are fun, but the plot itself went nowhere.
Tritta: D: Ugh.
Paranormal Jeff and Britta: B+: that was a nice, heartfelt discussion, which reminded me of S1. Too bad, it was surrounded by a lot of wacky nonsense.
Jeff attracts Seven of Nine: C: She's super hot and a super nerd! Can Jock Jeff cope with such cognitive dissonance?
Ms. Wingerannie: B+: The setup was awkward, but I liked that the writers actually committed to Annie's fantasy, and Alison was realy good.
Pierce and Shirley focus group: A-: I like the two of them together, and Pierce got to say things that others won't. That has value.
Chang/ Kevin: B+/F: as befits a character with split personality, the grade also has an evil alter ego. The plot actually started off interesting, and utterly fizzled by the end of the show.
Shawshakigving: B: good idea, wrong homage, so-so execution.
Tritta trout farm: C-: Somewhat more palatable, because the story didn't revolve around them making moon eyes at each other. But still: ugh.
5 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
"She's super hot and a super nerd! Can Jock Jeff cope with such cognitive dissonance?"
I laughed.
Do you think the show has always had problems with B-stories or was it just this season? I should have asked that earlier.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
"She's super hot and a super nerd! Can Jock Jeff cope with such cognitive dissonance?"
I laughed.
Do you think the show has always had problems with B-stories or was it just this season? I should have asked that earlier.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
No. I think the show was perfectly capable of producing great B stories (magic trampoline; hipster gang; the adventures of Dean Dangerous; most of Troy's Messiah AC repairman plots; Annie breaks the DKR DVD; and so forth). The problem with S4 was that it crammed too much in every episode, which resulted in a lot of half-assed narrative development, and weird character behavior.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
No. I think the show was perfectly capable of producing great B stories (magic trampoline; hipster gang; the adventures of Dean Dangerous; most of Troy's Messiah AC repairman plots; Annie breaks the DKR DVD; and so forth). The problem with S4 was that it crammed too much in every episode, which resulted in a lot of half-assed narrative development, and weird character behavior.
5 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Semi-bored torontonian yes I remember all the discussions about cramming things in now. (No phrasing.) That is all very true, and while the plots often got silly they did have good resolutions and meanings behind them (most of the time.)
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Semi-bored torontonian yes I remember all the discussions about cramming things in now. (No phrasing.) That is all very true, and while the plots often got silly they did have good resolutions and meanings behind them (most of the time.)
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
At its best, the show knew how to bounce the A and B plots off each other (look at how the magic tramapoline and the Rowboat Cop Abed plots are both revealed to be tales of unchecked hubris). Most of S4 plots seemed to mostly function on the "And meanwhile..." principle: just a way to check in with the characters and nothing else.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
At its best, the show knew how to bounce the A and B plots off each other (look at how the magic tramapoline and the Rowboat Cop Abed plots are both revealed to be tales of unchecked hubris). Most of S4 plots seemed to mostly function on the "And meanwhile..." principle: just a way to check in with the characters and nothing else.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Unregistered Guy Named Eric
BTW, it was Troy and Annie who went to the trout farm.
Jeff attracts Seven of Nine
I feel like the super nerd for even saying this, but...it's Six of Seven! ("We are the knights who say...ni!")
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
BTW, it was Troy and Annie who went to the trout farm.
Jeff attracts Seven of Nine
I feel like the super nerd for even saying this, but...it's Six of Seven! ("We are the knights who say...ni!")
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
I know; I was just too lazy to look up her character's name.
I was also too lazy to change the Troy/ Annie thing. That plot was still bad.
I'm just a thoroughly lazy person.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
I know; I was just too lazy to look up her character's name.
I was also too lazy to change the Troy/ Annie thing. That plot was still bad.
I'm just a thoroughly lazy person.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Stephen77
Yay for lazy people. High fi- ah fuckit.
5 DAYS AGO 9 LIKES
Yay for lazy people. High fi- ah fuckit.
5 DAYS AGO 9 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
That made me lau....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
That made me lau....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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roare
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Annie and Troy at the trout farm? Not Tritta? I don't even remember anymore.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Annie and Troy at the trout farm? Not Tritta? I don't even remember anymore.
5 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
It's true, I was just too lazy to change it.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
It's true, I was just too lazy to change it.
5 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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roare
Collapse
Abed TV: A-. Execution was a little on the nose, but the idea of Abed being afraid of the group growing apart was really great and handled well, and should've been more prevelant through-out the season.
-Pranks: C. Never went anywhere, despite solid efforts from Alison and Yvette. Also, again - Annie's "senioritis" was an idea that could've been focused on a lot more than it was.
-Tritta: D+. Gillian and Donald were fun. The scene itself was...not, and was a poor way to introduce us to the Tritta couple.
-Daddy Issues: A-. Classic Jeff/Britta, and with a refreshing win for Britta! But again, I wish we got more of it.
-Inspector Spacetime fan: D. I totally forgot this happened until now, so...yeah.
-Mrs. Winger: C+. Not nearly as bad as it should've been thanks to a top-notch performance from Alison. But I still hate it when the show relies too heavily on the schoolgirl crush side of Annie and too little on everything else.
-Focus Group: B+. Nothing amazing, but well-written, well-acted, funny stuff. Good enough for me.
-Kevin: B. At the time, I was interested to see where they were going with this Changnesia thing. It wound up going absolutely nowhere, but it was somewhat interesting here.
-Shawhank: B. Admirable idea, but the Shawshank angle wasn't really neccessary or executed to its fullest potential, and they could've driven home Shirley's loneliness more. Still, I appreciate the rare Season 4 plot that actually takes the characters' emotions seriously.
-Trout Farm: B. Again, nothing great, but a pretty fun little aside.
A LIKED REPLY
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
Collapse
Abed TV: A-. Execution was a little on the nose, but the idea of Abed being afraid of the group growing apart was really great and handled well, and should've been more prevelant through-out the season.
-Pranks: C. Never went anywhere, despite solid efforts from Alison and Yvette. Also, again - Annie's "senioritis" was an idea that could've been focused on a lot more than it was.
-Tritta: D+. Gillian and Donald were fun. The scene itself was...not, and was a poor way to introduce us to the Tritta couple.
-Daddy Issues: A-. Classic Jeff/Britta, and with a refreshing win for Britta! But again, I wish we got more of it.
-Inspector Spacetime fan: D. I totally forgot this happened until now, so...yeah.
-Mrs. Winger: C+. Not nearly as bad as it should've been thanks to a top-notch performance from Alison. But I still hate it when the show relies too heavily on the schoolgirl crush side of Annie and too little on everything else.
-Focus Group: B+. Nothing amazing, but well-written, well-acted, funny stuff. Good enough for me.
-Kevin: B. At the time, I was interested to see where they were going with this Changnesia thing. It wound up going absolutely nowhere, but it was somewhat interesting here.
-Shawhank: B. Admirable idea, but the Shawshank angle wasn't really neccessary or executed to its fullest potential, and they could've driven home Shirley's loneliness more. Still, I appreciate the rare Season 4 plot that actually takes the characters' emotions seriously.
-Trout Farm: B. Again, nothing great, but a pretty fun little aside.
A LIKED REPLY
5 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
Archived discussion from June 12th, 2013. Link here for original comment.
Capt. Blicero
Season 4 discussion for Community lol who cares!
Through the rest of the week I'll cover these topics: underrated episode of the season (something you want to champion), worst episode(s) of the season, and best episode(s) of the season.
Today let's continue our talk about the B/C plots of the season because, hey, who else would? They're the often forgotten threads of the often forgotten season. How do you rate the B/C/D/J plots of season 4?
Economics of Marine Biology
-Shirley and Troy in the new Physical Education Education class.
-Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut.
-Abed has his own side adventure with the Delta Cubes.
Herstory of Dance
-Abed sets ups two dates at the same time, and finds love ... in an unexpected place!
Intro to Felt Surrogacy
-(A concept episode where all the stories are closely related. So, uh, Sara Bareilles is hot.)
Intro to Knots
-(Same as above. So, uh, Malcolm McDowell is hot.)
Basic Human Anatomy
-Annie and Shirley compete for valedictorian and find an unexpected foe in Leonard.
farm4.staticflickr.com/3784/8999025633_a9c7f8ea15_o.jpg
-Although it's part of the main plot, Britta gets dumped by Troy (Abed)! Comment on that perhaps?
Heroic Origins
-Chang is sorta the B-plot here: he's secretly working for City College and the Dean entrusts him with a lease renewal for Greendale.
Advanced Introduction to Finality:
-(None, really. Right? I tried hard to forget this one, sadly....)
I'll post my thoughts on the B-plots soon. If you all don't participate in this discussion and talk about what you hated/liked about these plots, I will murder your entire family and burn their corpses to roast marshmallows.
Errant fishstick that needs to be posted.
farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/9000217346_1747aa8f4e_o.jpg
4 DAYS AGO 13 LIKES
Season 4 discussion for Community lol who cares!
Through the rest of the week I'll cover these topics: underrated episode of the season (something you want to champion), worst episode(s) of the season, and best episode(s) of the season.
Today let's continue our talk about the B/C plots of the season because, hey, who else would? They're the often forgotten threads of the often forgotten season. How do you rate the B/C/D/J plots of season 4?
Economics of Marine Biology
-Shirley and Troy in the new Physical Education Education class.
-Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut.
-Abed has his own side adventure with the Delta Cubes.
Herstory of Dance
-Abed sets ups two dates at the same time, and finds love ... in an unexpected place!
Intro to Felt Surrogacy
-(A concept episode where all the stories are closely related. So, uh, Sara Bareilles is hot.)
Intro to Knots
-(Same as above. So, uh, Malcolm McDowell is hot.)
Basic Human Anatomy
-Annie and Shirley compete for valedictorian and find an unexpected foe in Leonard.
farm4.staticflickr.com/3784/8999025633_a9c7f8ea15_o.jpg
-Although it's part of the main plot, Britta gets dumped by Troy (Abed)! Comment on that perhaps?
Heroic Origins
-Chang is sorta the B-plot here: he's secretly working for City College and the Dean entrusts him with a lease renewal for Greendale.
Advanced Introduction to Finality:
-(None, really. Right? I tried hard to forget this one, sadly....)
I'll post my thoughts on the B-plots soon. If you all don't participate in this discussion and talk about what you hated/liked about these plots, I will murder your entire family and burn their corpses to roast marshmallows.
Errant fishstick that needs to be posted.
farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/9000217346_1747aa8f4e_o.jpg
4 DAYS AGO 13 LIKES
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The Narrator Returns
Can I disqualify myself if I missed two of these episodes?
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Can I disqualify myself if I missed two of these episodes?
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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e pluribus anustart
Grades adjusted for B plot:
C
A
N/A
N/A
B
B
B
What I liked: Blah blah blah talk talk talk
What I disliked: Blah blah blah talk talk talk
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Grades adjusted for B plot:
C
A
N/A
N/A
B
B
B
What I liked: Blah blah blah talk talk talk
What I disliked: Blah blah blah talk talk talk
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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LloydBraun
"Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut" is the only one I liked of this bunch. It's just nice to see Jeff taking a breath in a season where he was constantly irritable. And I guess Pierce talking about Jeff meeting his father was nice to have at all, since the writers were wusses to not take it on in 405.
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
"Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut" is the only one I liked of this bunch. It's just nice to see Jeff taking a breath in a season where he was constantly irritable. And I guess Pierce talking about Jeff meeting his father was nice to have at all, since the writers were wusses to not take it on in 405.
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
I was really pleased for that storyline because Pierce was a horrible person with few redeeming qualities in season 4.
I'm also surprised more people aren't screaming about how great Abed's blind dates plot was. I thought that was universally adored, and Abed is used well there.
Also, hey, like those fishsticks?
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
I was really pleased for that storyline because Pierce was a horrible person with few redeeming qualities in season 4.
I'm also surprised more people aren't screaming about how great Abed's blind dates plot was. I thought that was universally adored, and Abed is used well there.
Also, hey, like those fishsticks?
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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LloydBraun
Great fishsticks. I'm glad to see people are actually using them. Brie's boobs in that 410 one are unstoppable.
This somehow reminds me of Don Draper:
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
Great fishsticks. I'm glad to see people are actually using them. Brie's boobs in that 410 one are unstoppable.
This somehow reminds me of Don Draper:
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
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e pluribus anustart
No, you're right, people who don't like it are assholes.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
No, you're right, people who don't like it are assholes.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
LloydBraun since you created those, do you have any ones that surprised you to share? I stumbled onto that weird one of the janitors in the closet (forgot that part of the episode) for example.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
LloydBraun since you created those, do you have any ones that surprised you to share? I stumbled onto that weird one of the janitors in the closet (forgot that part of the episode) for example.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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LloydBraun
I don't know about surprises, per se. I do know that I still can't believe I saw this on Community:
And I know that this girl is really cute:
She's my Brie Larson.
4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
I don't know about surprises, per se. I do know that I still can't believe I saw this on Community:
And I know that this girl is really cute:
She's my Brie Larson.4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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Maize Kraize
I don't remember the main plot of Marine Biology, but I thought the Shirley and Troy plot was really funny, and the Jeff and Pierce plot was truly heartfelt and good. It might be my favorite plot of the season.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
I don't remember the main plot of Marine Biology, but I thought the Shirley and Troy plot was really funny, and the Jeff and Pierce plot was truly heartfelt and good. It might be my favorite plot of the season.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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OccamsBlazer
coMMunitY SucKS!
The real COMMUNITY SUCKS is on summer vacation, so an intern is taking his place.
Ugh, interns. They're the worst.
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
coMMunitY SucKS!
The real COMMUNITY SUCKS is on summer vacation, so an intern is taking his place.
Ugh, interns. They're the worst.
4 DAYS AGO 8 LIKES
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SG Standard
Herstory times a million. The Abed plot in that one might have been my favorite part of the whole season.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Herstory times a million. The Abed plot in that one might have been my favorite part of the whole season.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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jmunney
Marine Bio: P.E.E. was surprisingly amusing, though unsurprisingly lightweight. Jeff/Pierce was a satisfying follow-up to "Escapism." Delta Cubes was a nice running joke that could have fit in just about anywhere, any time.
Herstory: Man, is that really considered a B-plot? I'll call it a co-A-plot. My most re-watched plot of the whole season. Also, let's not forget Troy's party supply-gathering C-plot.
Anatomy: A rather silly approach to an important issue. But at least Leonard's involved, though it would have made sense to have more of him. More than worth it though for Jim Rash's Joel McHale impression.
Origins: Yeah, hardly qualifies as a subplot. While it was nice that the City College takeover business wasn't awful, it would've been nice if it were something.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Marine Bio: P.E.E. was surprisingly amusing, though unsurprisingly lightweight. Jeff/Pierce was a satisfying follow-up to "Escapism." Delta Cubes was a nice running joke that could have fit in just about anywhere, any time.
Herstory: Man, is that really considered a B-plot? I'll call it a co-A-plot. My most re-watched plot of the whole season. Also, let's not forget Troy's party supply-gathering C-plot.
Anatomy: A rather silly approach to an important issue. But at least Leonard's involved, though it would have made sense to have more of him. More than worth it though for Jim Rash's Joel McHale impression.
Origins: Yeah, hardly qualifies as a subplot. While it was nice that the City College takeover business wasn't awful, it would've been nice if it were something.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
Troley - A- : That was... surprisingly fun. Shirley got to be a badass, which is never not good
Pierff - A- : I like when these two bond and become philosophical. Pierce the reluctantly accepted father figure will be sorely missed.
Cubed Abed - C- : He already joined a fraternity in "The Art of Discourse" AND IT WAS THE BEST ONE! Besides, the plot was so underwritten as to be completely meaningless.
Abed goes on a wacky double date - C- : the acting kinda salvages this one, but its popularity baffles me. It's a cliche plot with virtually no impact on Abed's development.
Puppets: NONONONO, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN TELL ME I DIDN'T SEE THIS!!!!!! /has minor seizure
Knotted MacDowell - Uh, Q-? This was kind of a half assed episode...
Arley - C+: If this competition hadn't come out of nowhere, it could have been funnier.
Abed dumps Britta - D: This is probably as low as Troy is going to sink in this show (I hope). The treacliness of the plot was only outdone by the unpleasantness of the situation, which saw Troy essentially pass off a basic adult responsibility to his friend. And I never disliked Britta more as when she found all this touching rather than punch-worthy (remember when Britta was world-weary and experienced? Flavor Country Britta would have never stood for this crap). This was rote rom-com stuff, and the more I think about it, the more I resent it.
Surprise! Chang is evil! Except he's not. OR IS HE? - D- : That was just pathetic.
AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting original to say about the characters. The execution wasn't stellar, but Jeff surrendering to Greendale entirely, just as he's about to leave it, and finally channeling Abed's ability to fantasize his way out of emotional binds, was quite touching.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
Troley - A- : That was... surprisingly fun. Shirley got to be a badass, which is never not good
Pierff - A- : I like when these two bond and become philosophical. Pierce the reluctantly accepted father figure will be sorely missed.
Cubed Abed - C- : He already joined a fraternity in "The Art of Discourse" AND IT WAS THE BEST ONE! Besides, the plot was so underwritten as to be completely meaningless.
Abed goes on a wacky double date - C- : the acting kinda salvages this one, but its popularity baffles me. It's a cliche plot with virtually no impact on Abed's development.
Puppets: NONONONO, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN TELL ME I DIDN'T SEE THIS!!!!!! /has minor seizure
Knotted MacDowell - Uh, Q-? This was kind of a half assed episode...
Arley - C+: If this competition hadn't come out of nowhere, it could have been funnier.
Abed dumps Britta - D: This is probably as low as Troy is going to sink in this show (I hope). The treacliness of the plot was only outdone by the unpleasantness of the situation, which saw Troy essentially pass off a basic adult responsibility to his friend. And I never disliked Britta more as when she found all this touching rather than punch-worthy (remember when Britta was world-weary and experienced? Flavor Country Britta would have never stood for this crap). This was rote rom-com stuff, and the more I think about it, the more I resent it.
Surprise! Chang is evil! Except he's not. OR IS HE? - D- : That was just pathetic.
AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting original to say about the characters. The execution wasn't stellar, but Jeff surrendering to Greendale entirely, just as he's about to leave it, and finally channeling Abed's ability to fantasize his way out of emotional binds, was quite touching.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Los Pollos Hermanos
Flavor Country Britta is the best Britta but she's been gone for a long time. I get a twinge of disappointment whenever I watch Pascal's because I really miss that version of her character. It's part of why I don't get why people like OVM so much.
4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
Flavor Country Britta is the best Britta but she's been gone for a long time. I get a twinge of disappointment whenever I watch Pascal's because I really miss that version of her character. It's part of why I don't get why people like OVM so much.
4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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SG Standard
Abed's double date itself doesn't create any character growth for Abed in and of itself, but it is representative of how much Abed has grown throughout the series. It's not part of a journey, it's a culmination of one. I find it similar to "Troy will find me" in COST. It's something Abed wouldn't have been capable of at one point in the show, and the fact that he has reached the point where he could believably behave in that way is worth celebrating.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
Abed's double date itself doesn't create any character growth for Abed in and of itself, but it is representative of how much Abed has grown throughout the series. It's not part of a journey, it's a culmination of one. I find it similar to "Troy will find me" in COST. It's something Abed wouldn't have been capable of at one point in the show, and the fact that he has reached the point where he could believably behave in that way is worth celebrating.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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LloydBraun
"The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters."
I don't understand this. What did it say about them? For an episode with an inter-timeline paintball fight, it was about as rote as I can imagine that story being.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
"The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters."
I don't understand this. What did it say about them? For an episode with an inter-timeline paintball fight, it was about as rote as I can imagine that story being.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
OK, I should have said A character, namely Jeff, but as I established last night, I am far too lazy to go back in and edit.
I think people get way too worked out about the paintball thing and miss the main point of the episode which was Jeff's anxiety about leaving Greendale (an anxiety which was professional - as in what he's going to do next; but especially personal and emotional). And instead of trying to rationalize this (or even repress is, as Jeff is wont to do - he's a pretty guarded person), he took a page from Abed's playbook and fantasized (or hallucinated, depending on how you look at it) a way out of his bind. This was his RCT, or his AUC - a way to explore his anxieties and reassure himself. Honestly, I found this to be both smart and quite touching - it's Jeff's final, and closest bond with Abed, a way to truly "see his value now."
The even smarter thing about AIT is the way it projected Jeff's dilemma on the viewers. It's not just Jeff leaving Greendale, it's us as well (at that point, I'm assuming nobody was thinking S5 was a possibility). So the show wanted to offer both us and Jeff the quintessential Greendale experience. Sadly, that turned out to be paintball.
I'm not saying that this episode is perfect. I am however saying that it has by far the most ambitious ideas of S4, and that it tried to both say something important about the main character, and make a statement about the relation between the show and its fans. That has value, as far as I'm concerned.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
OK, I should have said A character, namely Jeff, but as I established last night, I am far too lazy to go back in and edit.
I think people get way too worked out about the paintball thing and miss the main point of the episode which was Jeff's anxiety about leaving Greendale (an anxiety which was professional - as in what he's going to do next; but especially personal and emotional). And instead of trying to rationalize this (or even repress is, as Jeff is wont to do - he's a pretty guarded person), he took a page from Abed's playbook and fantasized (or hallucinated, depending on how you look at it) a way out of his bind. This was his RCT, or his AUC - a way to explore his anxieties and reassure himself. Honestly, I found this to be both smart and quite touching - it's Jeff's final, and closest bond with Abed, a way to truly "see his value now."
The even smarter thing about AIT is the way it projected Jeff's dilemma on the viewers. It's not just Jeff leaving Greendale, it's us as well (at that point, I'm assuming nobody was thinking S5 was a possibility). So the show wanted to offer both us and Jeff the quintessential Greendale experience. Sadly, that turned out to be paintball.
I'm not saying that this episode is perfect. I am however saying that it has by far the most ambitious ideas of S4, and that it tried to both say something important about the main character, and make a statement about the relation between the show and its fans. That has value, as far as I'm concerned.
4 DAYS AGO 7 LIKES
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LloydBraun
Believe it or not, as cynical as Jeff may seem he has always been very open to adopting fantasy and magic: the ghost took the pen, the trampoline, the imaginary hats, thinking of the study table as magical, etc. Fantasizing the evil timeline is in that tradition but, really, all its doing is dressing up a storyline that had been exhausted long ago. Seemingly all of season 4 was about his graduation without the contemplation so the finale was always going to be anticlimactic when it suddenly tacked it on.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Believe it or not, as cynical as Jeff may seem he has always been very open to adopting fantasy and magic: the ghost took the pen, the trampoline, the imaginary hats, thinking of the study table as magical, etc. Fantasizing the evil timeline is in that tradition but, really, all its doing is dressing up a storyline that had been exhausted long ago. Seemingly all of season 4 was about his graduation without the contemplation so the finale was always going to be anticlimactic when it suddenly tacked it on.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
Jeff has been open to fantasy, but he's never immersed himself in it (even in AUC, he and Britta are the only ones who only half commit to that song). He saw it as a good way to therapize others. I thought it was pretty cool that this time he actually initiated the hallucination himself.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
Jeff has been open to fantasy, but he's never immersed himself in it (even in AUC, he and Britta are the only ones who only half commit to that song). He saw it as a good way to therapize others. I thought it was pretty cool that this time he actually initiated the hallucination himself.
4 DAYS AGO 4 LIKES
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jmunney
I agree. I disagree. What?!
...
This season was weird.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
I agree. I disagree. What?!
...
This season was weird.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
"AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters."
Jeff meeting his father was more interesting in terms of characterization than anything else this season. I know lots of people agree that was done well, and that was a big moment. Also, Abed in History 101 pulled himself out of his dreamworld as he was coping with senior year.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
"AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters."
Jeff meeting his father was more interesting in terms of characterization than anything else this season. I know lots of people agree that was done well, and that was a big moment. Also, Abed in History 101 pulled himself out of his dreamworld as he was coping with senior year.
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
Jeff meeting his father pretty much followed all the beats I was expecting it to follow (it's not a knock on the episode, which I actually liked best of the whole season). And yes, Abed pulled himself out of his dreamworld, but so did Jeff, and that's precisely the point.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
Jeff meeting his father pretty much followed all the beats I was expecting it to follow (it's not a knock on the episode, which I actually liked best of the whole season). And yes, Abed pulled himself out of his dreamworld, but so did Jeff, and that's precisely the point.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Semi-bored torontonian
Okay, so I'm saying Thanksgiving was better for his character and told more about him, and your'e responding with: it followed all the beats you expected it to.
Following all the beats you expect it to
This is a worthwhile point. If a show is formulaic, then there's less tension, resonance, enjoyment, etc. (except to fans of NCIS.)
But I'm not sure that applies to this episode.
To wit:
1) I don't see how it was formulaic. They threw in a curveball with Jeff having a half-brother he had to navigate. He has an absolutely wonderful speech about cutting himself. It was poignant. No one saw that specific detail coming, and I think it worked well -- people in the comments section complimented it. Good storytelling is keeping you a little off balance so you pay attention. While we all knew Jeff would drive back to talk to him, was it really expected that he'd completely tell his dad off? They don't sugarcoat things or try to aim for a sunset with puppies and held hands. They could have gone with a softer approach. But they didn't.
2) If you believe you know which beats they should use, and it's your own opinion, and they do those things, what does that really say? That you know how to write TV? Or that you believe in yourself a little too much? What exactly is wrong with following the beats you think a story should follow?
3) This was a HUGE moment for the series. His character was leading for this moment. His father had been talked about several times, and Jeff *does* have major daddy issues. He meets his father. He goes toe to toe. And he tells him how the abandonment actually made him feel. We got to hear more about his inner sadness he keeps hidden. How is that *not* interesting characterization? It's a legitimate zenith for the main character of the show.
4) This episode might be underrated because we all knew this episode would be important, so it wasn't a surprise. But that shouldn't discredit the work it actually did: in a season of duds and mixed reviews, they pulled off a milestone for the show's biggest character. We knew it would be important, yes, but that doesn't make it any less important.
...But this whole argument hangs on the precarious balance of the definition of the word "interesting," which is different for each person.
And while Jeff goings knee-deep into a fantasy world might line up thematically, if it's not executed well it's not a great story. That's the problem I have with it. But this is a discussion for another day. That was not a B-plot and should not have been discussed here....
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
Semi-bored torontonian
Okay, so I'm saying Thanksgiving was better for his character and told more about him, and your'e responding with: it followed all the beats you expected it to.
Following all the beats you expect it to
This is a worthwhile point. If a show is formulaic, then there's less tension, resonance, enjoyment, etc. (except to fans of NCIS.)
But I'm not sure that applies to this episode.
To wit:
1) I don't see how it was formulaic. They threw in a curveball with Jeff having a half-brother he had to navigate. He has an absolutely wonderful speech about cutting himself. It was poignant. No one saw that specific detail coming, and I think it worked well -- people in the comments section complimented it. Good storytelling is keeping you a little off balance so you pay attention. While we all knew Jeff would drive back to talk to him, was it really expected that he'd completely tell his dad off? They don't sugarcoat things or try to aim for a sunset with puppies and held hands. They could have gone with a softer approach. But they didn't.
2) If you believe you know which beats they should use, and it's your own opinion, and they do those things, what does that really say? That you know how to write TV? Or that you believe in yourself a little too much? What exactly is wrong with following the beats you think a story should follow?
3) This was a HUGE moment for the series. His character was leading for this moment. His father had been talked about several times, and Jeff *does* have major daddy issues. He meets his father. He goes toe to toe. And he tells him how the abandonment actually made him feel. We got to hear more about his inner sadness he keeps hidden. How is that *not* interesting characterization? It's a legitimate zenith for the main character of the show.
4) This episode might be underrated because we all knew this episode would be important, so it wasn't a surprise. But that shouldn't discredit the work it actually did: in a season of duds and mixed reviews, they pulled off a milestone for the show's biggest character. We knew it would be important, yes, but that doesn't make it any less important.
...But this whole argument hangs on the precarious balance of the definition of the word "interesting," which is different for each person.
And while Jeff goings knee-deep into a fantasy world might line up thematically, if it's not executed well it's not a great story. That's the problem I have with it. But this is a discussion for another day. That was not a B-plot and should not have been discussed here....
4 DAYS AGO 5 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
This is going to be brief, because I really need to go to sleep.
1. Did you read the whole post? I didn't say the episode was bad. In fact, I really, really liked it, and it's the only episode of S4 I actually own (I bought it off iTunes).
2. Pretty much since Winger Sr. was mentioned more seriously on the show, it became clear that Jeff's meeting with him would be a form of catharsis: Jeff was going to get the guy out of his system once and for all (he even practiced for the big moment in "Advanced Gay"). So, in that respect, the episode was predictable, because it literally had no other course to follow. Another narrative was pretty much inconceivable.
3. The fact that I can see the beats coming, doesn't mean I can write TV. It just means I've watched enough to be able to tell where some stories go. Predictability handled well can be a lot of fun.
4. I am not underrating the episode. I gave it an A-.
5. I didn't say AIF was well executed, because it wasn't. But I find its characterization of Jeff just as interesting as that from CEFR.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
This is going to be brief, because I really need to go to sleep.
1. Did you read the whole post? I didn't say the episode was bad. In fact, I really, really liked it, and it's the only episode of S4 I actually own (I bought it off iTunes).
2. Pretty much since Winger Sr. was mentioned more seriously on the show, it became clear that Jeff's meeting with him would be a form of catharsis: Jeff was going to get the guy out of his system once and for all (he even practiced for the big moment in "Advanced Gay"). So, in that respect, the episode was predictable, because it literally had no other course to follow. Another narrative was pretty much inconceivable.
3. The fact that I can see the beats coming, doesn't mean I can write TV. It just means I've watched enough to be able to tell where some stories go. Predictability handled well can be a lot of fun.
4. I am not underrating the episode. I gave it an A-.
5. I didn't say AIF was well executed, because it wasn't. But I find its characterization of Jeff just as interesting as that from CEFR.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
1. My post had nothing to do with how bad/good the episode was. It was about an 'interesting" character development/storyline.2. The use of interesting here is tenuous, though. You're conflating interesting with predictable. Even if we knew the episode is coming, the fact that we care so much proves that it's interesting. "The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters." I know what you said, but I think you're trying to define what we find as interesting as what you find interesting. It's a BIG statement to make there: the *only* thing. The word only as a qualifier is a bold statement.
3. "Predictability handled well can be a lot of fun." So you're conceding the point, then.
4. I'm talking about how "interesting" the characterization was.
5. "AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters. "
"But I find its characterization of Jeff just as interesting as that from CEFR."
So ... you're saying another episode did have something interesting to say about the characters?
The only point of this argument to me is that you made a bold statement where only one episode had something interesting to say about its characters, and I wanted to say that wasn't true. (Which is weird because we're talking about B-plots here.)
4 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
1. My post had nothing to do with how bad/good the episode was. It was about an 'interesting" character development/storyline.2. The use of interesting here is tenuous, though. You're conflating interesting with predictable. Even if we knew the episode is coming, the fact that we care so much proves that it's interesting. "The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters." I know what you said, but I think you're trying to define what we find as interesting as what you find interesting. It's a BIG statement to make there: the *only* thing. The word only as a qualifier is a bold statement.
3. "Predictability handled well can be a lot of fun." So you're conceding the point, then.
4. I'm talking about how "interesting" the characterization was.
5. "AIF - B+ : The only episode this season that had something interesting to say about the characters. "
"But I find its characterization of Jeff just as interesting as that from CEFR."
So ... you're saying another episode did have something interesting to say about the characters?
The only point of this argument to me is that you made a bold statement where only one episode had something interesting to say about its characters, and I wanted to say that wasn't true. (Which is weird because we're talking about B-plots here.)
4 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
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Semi-bored torontonian
Does it make it better if I say "original" instead of "interesting"? My point was that I was expecting Jeff's reactions at meeting his dad; I wasn't expecting him to pull an Abed in the finale. In the first case I was pleased because Jeff behaved exactly as I thought he should have, so predictability was a huge factor in my enjoyment of that episode; in the second case, I was surprised, but I also thought his behavior made sense, and that was a different type of enjoyment.
I'm not saying AIF is better than CEFR, because it's not; AIF has major structural problems, and it's not always especially funny. But it takes Jeff in an unexpected direction that nonetheless resonated with me, and I was very surprised to see so many people (Todd included) think that it was THE WORST THING EVER, especially in a season that included that horrid episode with the Germans.
4 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
Does it make it better if I say "original" instead of "interesting"? My point was that I was expecting Jeff's reactions at meeting his dad; I wasn't expecting him to pull an Abed in the finale. In the first case I was pleased because Jeff behaved exactly as I thought he should have, so predictability was a huge factor in my enjoyment of that episode; in the second case, I was surprised, but I also thought his behavior made sense, and that was a different type of enjoyment.
I'm not saying AIF is better than CEFR, because it's not; AIF has major structural problems, and it's not always especially funny. But it takes Jeff in an unexpected direction that nonetheless resonated with me, and I was very surprised to see so many people (Todd included) think that it was THE WORST THING EVER, especially in a season that included that horrid episode with the Germans.
4 DAYS AGO 2 LIKES
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Capt. Blicero
Economics of Marine Biology-Shirley and Troy in the new Physical Education Education class.
As many people have said, it was like a season 1 plot thrown into season 4. It's nice to see Shirley get depth beyond "I'm a mother rabble rabble." Also good to see Troy thrown to the wolves like that.
-Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut.
This was outstanding because Pierce rarely got a good storyline. Jeff has chemistry with EVERYONE. It was legitimately touching to see them bond over hating golf.
-Abed has his own side adventure with the Delta Cubes.
I think some people hated this when the episode aired, but I don't see a problem. Abed's just having fun and saves the episode at the end. That's our Abed!
Herstory of Dance
-Abed sets ups two dates at the same time, and finds love ... in an unexpected place!
I rewatched this episode and it held up really well. This is a perfect blend of Abed -- it's not an alien with a syndrome, and he's not some super-creature who's great at everything he tries. His girl (Brie) is also an interesting character.
Intro to Felt Surrogacy
-(A concept episode where all the stories are closely related. So, uh, Sara Bareilles is hot.)
I want her to guide me.
Basic Human Anatomy
-Annie and Shirley compete for valedictorian and find an unexpected foe in Leonard.
I never got on board with Shirley suddenly being a great student. And I honestly have a hard time remembering anything from their plot. All I can do is think of Jim Rash's performance.
-Although it's part of the main plot, Britta gets dumped by Troy (Abed)! Comment on that perhaps?
It's funny how silently the relationship ended. They were as into it as we were.
Heroic Origins
-Chang is sorta the B-plot here: he's secretly working for City College and the Dean entrusts him with a lease renewal for Greendale.
This was completely botched. As much as people hated Chang's season 3 storyline, at least it didn't completely fizzle out like this one. You have to structure a story-arc so the character earns it. Chang jumps ship on his spy-game too quickly and suddenly he's one of the study group. Whatever.
4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
Economics of Marine Biology-Shirley and Troy in the new Physical Education Education class.
As many people have said, it was like a season 1 plot thrown into season 4. It's nice to see Shirley get depth beyond "I'm a mother rabble rabble." Also good to see Troy thrown to the wolves like that.
-Jeff distracts Pierce by going to get their hair cut.
This was outstanding because Pierce rarely got a good storyline. Jeff has chemistry with EVERYONE. It was legitimately touching to see them bond over hating golf.
-Abed has his own side adventure with the Delta Cubes.
I think some people hated this when the episode aired, but I don't see a problem. Abed's just having fun and saves the episode at the end. That's our Abed!
Herstory of Dance
-Abed sets ups two dates at the same time, and finds love ... in an unexpected place!
I rewatched this episode and it held up really well. This is a perfect blend of Abed -- it's not an alien with a syndrome, and he's not some super-creature who's great at everything he tries. His girl (Brie) is also an interesting character.
Intro to Felt Surrogacy
-(A concept episode where all the stories are closely related. So, uh, Sara Bareilles is hot.)
I want her to guide me.
Basic Human Anatomy
-Annie and Shirley compete for valedictorian and find an unexpected foe in Leonard.
I never got on board with Shirley suddenly being a great student. And I honestly have a hard time remembering anything from their plot. All I can do is think of Jim Rash's performance.
-Although it's part of the main plot, Britta gets dumped by Troy (Abed)! Comment on that perhaps?
It's funny how silently the relationship ended. They were as into it as we were.
Heroic Origins
-Chang is sorta the B-plot here: he's secretly working for City College and the Dean entrusts him with a lease renewal for Greendale.
This was completely botched. As much as people hated Chang's season 3 storyline, at least it didn't completely fizzle out like this one. You have to structure a story-arc so the character earns it. Chang jumps ship on his spy-game too quickly and suddenly he's one of the study group. Whatever.
4 DAYS AGO 6 LIKES
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roare
Physical Education Education: B+. Really funny, nothing worldbreaking, but well-grounded in the characters of Shirley and Troy. Also, the actual idea of PEE is one of the funniest things from Season 4.
Hair Cut: A-. Best Jeff/Pierce story in a while, and honestly, not a bad capper to their relationship - but like so many other good aspects of S4, I wish we got more of it.
Delta Cubes: D-. Didn't need to exist...it was barely there as it was.
Two Dates: A-. Helped by a great performances from Brie Larson, but I thought this was actually a pretty interesting development for Abed's character.
Valedictorian: B+. The valedictorian plot was a somewhat interesting idea, and it brought out some of Alison and Yvette's best comedic chops.
Troy/Abed Dumping Britta: A-. Other than Jeff meeting his dad, I thought this was the best executed scene of the season in terms of emotion. Gillian Jacobs and Donald Glover sold the fucking hell out of it.
Chang: D. It felt like they ran out of time with the Changnesia story and scrambled to write an ending. Lame.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES
Physical Education Education: B+. Really funny, nothing worldbreaking, but well-grounded in the characters of Shirley and Troy. Also, the actual idea of PEE is one of the funniest things from Season 4.
Hair Cut: A-. Best Jeff/Pierce story in a while, and honestly, not a bad capper to their relationship - but like so many other good aspects of S4, I wish we got more of it.
Delta Cubes: D-. Didn't need to exist...it was barely there as it was.
Two Dates: A-. Helped by a great performances from Brie Larson, but I thought this was actually a pretty interesting development for Abed's character.
Valedictorian: B+. The valedictorian plot was a somewhat interesting idea, and it brought out some of Alison and Yvette's best comedic chops.
Troy/Abed Dumping Britta: A-. Other than Jeff meeting his dad, I thought this was the best executed scene of the season in terms of emotion. Gillian Jacobs and Donald Glover sold the fucking hell out of it.
Chang: D. It felt like they ran out of time with the Changnesia story and scrambled to write an ending. Lame.
4 DAYS AGO 3 LIKES